W202 PROS n KONS Options

[Andrew C280sport]

I am still waiting for the link that show amg's website saying that the C36 has a custom engine block and does not share any parts with the M104 engine from Mercedes Benz

[arvy]

According to Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M104_engine )
AMG 3.6 L M104.941
There were 3.6 L conversions done to both the M103 and M104 by Brabus, among others.
AMG developed a 3.6 L M104 that was used in the W202 C36 AMG (W202),the W124 E36 AMG (W124) and the E36 AMG (W210) vehicles.
The AMG 3.6 M104 was rated at 276 horsepower (206 kW) at 5,750 rpm and 284 foot-pounds force (385 N·m) of torque at 4,000 rpm using the HFM engine management system.
The boost in power was obtained by stroking the 2,8 litre M104 using the crank from the 350sd engine.

If wikipedia is accurate, you are both correct. The AMG 3.6 started life as a 2.8 litre M104 that was customized by AMG (incrased bore and stroke) using a crank from the 3.5 litre OM603 diesel.

Another source: ( http://www.fantasycars.com/sedans/HTML/mer...6_amg_w202.html )
"The 4 valves/cylinder, inline six engine is based on the unit found in the C280, but with a 1.1 mm increase in bore diameter and a huge 18.9 mm increase in stroke length. The compression is also slightly stepped up to 10.5:1 while the electronics have been recalibrated, more aggressive camshafts have been fitted and a freer-flowing exhaust bolted on. The result is 276 horsepower at 5750 rpm and 284 lb-ft of torque at 4000 rpm, 82 more horsepower than the C280 and 36 more than the BMW M3."

This post has been edited by arvy: May 10 2009, 12:09 AM

[W202AMG]

[quote name='Hot Rodder' date='May 9 2009, 03:07 PM' post='60935']
What does that have to do with Mercedes, or even 202's?? lol

Its a performance sedan, are you buying the "star" or "performance"? If you're buying the star its got nothing to do with it, if you're buying performance G8 is exceptional value as a performance sedan.

E63 - M5 - CTS-V are all performance sedans....

C63 or a G8 GT for half the money are both performance sedans.

If you are going to talk about a C36 which was a "half baked effort" from AMG fooling around with a bored out inline 6 trying to compete with the BMW philosophy when historically every performance M-B has had a V8 or a C43 which by now is 10 years old with a slightly warmed over 4.3 litre engine the regular version had 275HP a G8 is a dramatically better value from a performance perspective.
[/quote]

wow G8 is a performance sedan..., what racing history does it have? does a G8 have a DTM G8, how long has a G8 existed? oh and Pontiac is being put to sleep next year, there will be no more pontiac.

so

Why are you talking about cars 13 years more advanced? C36 was the sports saloon back in its day, G8, maybe you haven't checked lately that GM is dropping pontiac FOREVER by 2010, among other GM companies like Saturn and so on.

E63....E55 will eat an E63

CTS-V ...Fast Garbage

[quote name='Andrew C280sport' date='May 9 2009, 07:28 PM' post='60949']
Does your engine have a plaque with a persons name on it... ?
[/quote]

see 1995 leather seats

2000 C230 leather seats

[/quote]


your talking about a engine plaque, LOL. These new AMG's have people all thinking their cool, yet there DIME a Douzen, i would rather own a RARE c36 and part of REAL AMG/Mercedes History then a newer one. There's class and then theres "No Frills" mass production.

The older benzes came with a plate with digital codes that explained the whole deal with the car.

The C36 is a C280 Engine with bigger bore and stroke, exhaust, etc. They are quiet similar and not much different in terms of features.

also

Those leather seats are recaro, look on the bottom of the driver seat there is a stitched tag, and guess what it says.

lol ebay pics.lol where fake ish is prime.

To anyone who is confused, i'll say this one more time ..... The C36 IS a C280 with the engine bored from a 2.8 to a 3.6 and stroked etc.

AND FOR THOSE ppl who keep comparing 2009 cars with the C36, C43, you sound like kids who have no clue about cars.

2008 slk 280 would do something like a 14.4 1/4 mile which is as fast as a C43 or C36, because Mercedes benz improved each generation of engines and transmissions each time round, and thats how it should be.

looking at a benz you don't compare its performance just by the engine cc, but also what generation the engine is, compare todays c280 with a 1997 c280, HUGE DIFFERENCE!

and back in its day C36 DID own M3's it never failed, who ever thinks that, has actually failed.
http://www.fantasycars.com/sedans/HTML/mer...6_amg_w202.html

Year For Year AMG C-classes always smoked M3's, AMG never failed, they tested their stuff on the RACE TRACK, before they put it in production cars, they didn't TEST their performance on production cars! so what ever went into AMG production cars was Proven AMG Technology, and power, not testing.

As for the vast options available back then, people are being confused to thinking they were trying to test differrent things. Thats not the case, back then you could customize the benz as much as you wanted, now you get what they give you package this, or that.lol back then they didn't cheap out, now they do.

As for sports performance vehicle, if its AMG then yea its a sports saloon, wagon, converitble etc.

This post has been edited by W202AMG: May 10 2009, 01:38 AM

[Eddie Jai]

Pssssshhhhh...you cooky kids and your little 202's...no doubt the C36 is really nice...but Id personally have one of these.....



W201....a 190E 2.5-16 Cosworth pre AMG...

What? Audi came out with the Quattro?! Damnit..!! we'll pull out of the rally and just push it out to the public...oh and tune a few and bring them to Lamans...>_>

Its not that fast by todays standards...but...damn it looks so cool!!! lol

This post has been edited by Eddie Jai: May 10 2009, 03:04 AM

[Eddie Jai]

I agree with 202AMG, You cannot really compare stock cars built, 10,15 years ago to today's standards.

Time goes on, technology gets better...

example....

Your C36 AMG 0-60, 5.9 seconds... 1/4 mile...14.4 sec
2008 Accord V6 coupe 0-60....5.9 seconds... 1/4 mile 14.5 sec

(Please note that these numbers are on paper only and do not account for wind...tuning...and general stupidity due to inexperience drivers)

Im sure that if you went back far enough you'll find a lamborgini that cant outrun a new Mazda3 speed or some sort of entry level Type R or factory "race" tuned car.

People that have these delousions of "Whoa...he drives an 86 Trueno! that thing must be fast!" just have watched one to many "best motoring" or "Fast and Furious" dvd's

kids: "but...but Uncle Eddie!! Keiichi Tsuchiya killed everyone in his 86 Trueno!"
Me: "uhh...yea but if you stuck him in an NSX he'd probably do better..."
Kids: "He'd probably out race you on a track!"
Me: "Duuuhhhh...if he was behind me he'd probably push me to my death...The guy has balls the size of coconuts, he presses the throttle down to the floor and keeps it there, If I did that at Sugi touge...Id probably soil my underwear at the first few corners....its why Im a cook...and he's a professional racer...."

[Benzonline]

Might sound a bit cheesy but im so proud of knowiing you guys....fighting and arguing to keep the W202 spirit alive! Whatever engine or options you got be happy....

"if it's too good to be true, it must be a 202"

Goodnight brothers......I'm too tipsy to type more

[BenzMaster19]

I agree with 202AMG, You cannot really compare stock cars built, 10,15 years ago to today's standards.

Time goes on, technology gets better...

example....

Your C36 AMG 0-60, 5.9 seconds... 1/4 mile...14.4 sec
2008 Accord V6 coupe 0-60....5.9 seconds... 1/4 mile 14.5 sec

(Please note that these numbers are on paper only and do not account for wind...tuning...and general stupidity due to inexperience drivers)

Im sure that if you went back far enough you'll find a lamborgini that cant outrun a new Mazda3 speed or some sort of entry level Type R or factory "race" tuned car.

People that have these delousions of "Whoa...he drives an 86 Trueno! that thing must be fast!" just have watched one to many "best motoring" or "Fast and Furious" dvd's

kids: "but...but Uncle Eddie!! Keiichi Tsuchiya killed everyone in his 86 Trueno!"
Me: "uhh...yea but if you stuck him in an NSX he'd probably do better..."
Kids: "He'd probably out race you on a track!"
Me: "Duuuhhhh...if he was behind me he'd probably push me to my death...The guy has balls the size of coconuts, he presses the throttle down to the floor and keeps it there, If I did that at Sugi touge...Id probably soil my underwear at the first few corners....its why Im a cook...and he's a professional racer...."

Hey Eddie, you must remember though that Benz's shine ABOVE 140 Km/h were most cars start to fail miserably! so any Benz that has a decent 0-60 time is just iceing on the cake. Benz's were made to run high speed, as most other cars are more for 0-60.

[Hot Rodder]

Good thing that its wet and miserable out this morning....

wow G8 is a performance sedan..., what racing history does it have? does a G8 have a DTM G8, how long has a G8 existed? oh and Pontiac is being put to sleep next year, there will be no more pontiac.

Where was AMG when Pontiac was winning at Daytona with Fireball Roberts, where was AMG when Pontiac was racing in the Trans Am series, wasn't the C43 a one model year wonder???

so

Why are you talking about cars 13 years more advanced? C36 was the sports saloon back in its day, G8, maybe you haven't checked lately that GM is dropping pontiac FOREVER by 2010, among other GM companies like Saturn and so on.

Benz performance has always been done with V8's 40 years ago, 30 years ago, 15 years ago....the original AMG modified car was a 300SEL with a 6.3....every performance M-B without a V8 has been a "flop"...

If you are buying performance with your money ideally you should be looking to get good value for your money....if you think a C36 or a C43 is exceptional value for your money in 2009 its your opinion, others have other opinions.

When C43's were new you could not sell a C43 at its price, nobody with a "brain" was prepared to pay 75 large for such a small car with a V8 and a rumble, when C43 started getting heavily discounted is when they slowly started moving at the end of the model year.

When a C36 was new it was barely blipping on anyone's radar screen...."over priced C Class with AMG stickers"

If you are going to talk older M-B performance sedans find a 500E at least that car has an interesting history.

AMG C Class cars create a nice "halo" to sell regular C Class cars all around them, the mission of a C class today or 15 or almost 20 years ago is to ideally sell (lease) an entry level luxury car. The AMG versions create the halo, make good $$$ for M-B, depreciate like rocks since nobody wants then used.

If you find a C43 for around 10K buy it even if the car is a little runty and have fun with a cheap "hot rod" for a while, after you get tired of the very stiff suspension, the rust issues, the not so nice interior, move on to something else...

To think of it a C43 would make a pretty good track car....you could make your own tracking history!!!!!

Now instead of talking go out an get a runty C43 start using it for what it is, and tell us about it, then we will compare notes...of what "memorable moments" you will have with a C43

[W202AMG]

Pssssshhhhh...you cooky kids and your little 202's...no doubt the C36 is really nice...but Id personally have one of these.....



W201....a 190E 2.5-16 Cosworth pre AMG...

What? Audi came out with the Quattro?! Damnit..!! we'll pull out of the rally and just push it out to the public...oh and tune a few and bring them to Lamans...>_>

Its not that fast by todays standards...but...damn it looks so cool!!! lol

I couldn't agree more, cosworth 190E is the old school classic, i'm starting love this car, just saw a 190E AMG Evo I for sale yesterday for $14k, so its getting there.

I agree with 202AMG, You cannot really compare stock cars built, 10,15 years ago to today's standards.

Time goes on, technology gets better...

example....

Your C36 AMG 0-60, 5.9 seconds... 1/4 mile...14.4 sec
2008 Accord V6 coupe 0-60....5.9 seconds... 1/4 mile 14.5 sec

(Please note that these numbers are on paper only and do not account for wind...tuning...and general stupidity due to inexperience drivers)

Im sure that if you went back far enough you'll find a lamborgini that cant outrun a new Mazda3 speed or some sort of entry level Type R or factory "race" tuned car.

People that have these delousions of "Whoa...he drives an 86 Trueno! that thing must be fast!" just have watched one to many "best motoring" or "Fast and Furious" dvd's

kids: "but...but Uncle Eddie!! Keiichi Tsuchiya killed everyone in his 86 Trueno!"
Me: "uhh...yea but if you stuck him in an NSX he'd probably do better..."
Kids: "He'd probably out race you on a track!"
Me: "Duuuhhhh...if he was behind me he'd probably push me to my death...The guy has balls the size of coconuts, he presses the throttle down to the floor and keeps it there, If I did that at Sugi touge...Id probably soil my underwear at the first few corners....its why Im a cook...and he's a professional racer...."

+1 Extremely true!

Might sound a bit cheesy but im so proud of knowiing you guys....fighting and arguing to keep the W202 spirit alive! Whatever engine or options you got be happy....

"if it's too good to be true, it must be a 202"

Goodnight brothers......I'm too tipsy to type more

I'm not fighting here for the 202's but rather trying to differ the off comparisons some are making here, 202's are nice cars, but like eddie said we can't compare cars of today with cars from 10, 15 years ago.

Good thing that its wet and miserable out this morning....

wow G8 is a performance sedan..., what racing history does it have? does a G8 have a DTM G8, how long has a G8 existed? oh and Pontiac is being put to sleep next year, there will be no more pontiac.

Where was AMG when Pontiac was winning at Daytona with Fireball Roberts, where was AMG when Pontiac was racing in the Trans Am series, wasn't the C43 a one model year wonder???

so

Why are you talking about cars 13 years more advanced? C36 was the sports saloon back in its day, G8, maybe you haven't checked lately that GM is dropping pontiac FOREVER by 2010, among other GM companies like Saturn and so on.

Benz performance has always been done with V8's 40 years ago, 30 years ago, 15 years ago....the original AMG modified car was a 300SEL with a 6.3....every performance M-B without a V8 has been a "flop"...

If you are buying performance with your money ideally you should be looking to get good value for your money....if you think a C36 or a C43 is exceptional value for your money in 2009 its your opinion, others have other opinions.

When C43's were new you could not sell a C43 at its price, nobody with a "brain" was prepared to pay 75 large for such a small car with a V8 and a rumble, when C43 started getting heavily discounted is when they slowly started moving at the end of the model year.

When a C36 was new it was barely blipping on anyone's radar screen...."over priced C Class with AMG stickers"

If you are going to talk older M-B performance sedans find a 500E at least that car has an interesting history.

AMG C Class cars create a nice "halo" to sell regular C Class cars all around them, the mission of a C class today or 15 or almost 20 years ago is to ideally sell (lease) an entry level luxury car. The AMG versions create the halo, make good $$$ for M-B, depreciate like rocks since nobody wants then used.

If you find a C43 for around 10K buy it even if the car is a little runty and have fun with a cheap "hot rod" for a while, after you get tired of the very stiff suspension, the rust issues, the not so nice interior, move on to something else...

To think of it a C43 would make a pretty good track car....you could make your own tracking history!!!!!

Now instead of talking go out an get a runty C43 start using it for what it is, and tell us about it, then we will compare notes...of what "memorable moments" you will have with a C43

I understand your point here, trust me im a big muscle car fan, and if you notice i specifically asked about the "G8" not any other pontiac, i like the Pontiac "Goat" GTO's within the pontiac range and its history.

Again all the new cars you mentioned are way out of comparison for the C36/C43.

If i were to buy a C36 or C43 it wouldn't be for buying a car i want to race people in but rather as a colletors car.

if you want to compare something look at this way, todays C 6.3 AMG is a Monster to its rivals, those old C classes were the same.

The story about why they didn't sell those C36 and C43's, i don't how thats the case when its near impossible to find them for sale, maybe a few here and there from owners who are probably moving on to another newer benz.

you said "real" AMG's are V8's, so why are you then knocking a C43 in the same post? even if it was only produced for one year. If you re check C43 history it was a celebration thing they wanted to go big before the stopped making the C AMG's of the old gen.

yes 500E etc are fast cars, just like today any E500. Again comparing a different car here, why would someone buy an E class when they obviously really like C class and want something sporty in a C class. Similarly hy would so many people today buy C63's? and pay almost 70k? becasue like back then people see a small car with insane power, power to weight ratio. If people didn't like them they could easily buy used porsche 911's, corvettes, mustangs etc.

I appreciate all cars, but i also try to address my opinion when i see really wild comparisons.

Marco has a C280,and C36, if he were to get a C43 he would probably have ONE of the rarerest benz collections in north America by one person.

If he said its a sports saloon i think he's right in saying so,if you look at the facts, but that dosen't mean he wants to buy sports saloon, from what i have seen he's very into W202's and likes owning them and taking care of them.

Where as i am more of a gear head for speed, thats why when im done with my Uni im probably going for something like an E55.

but owning a w202 i sure am surprised at the level of quality and have a great appreciation and respect for it even when i move on, in a few years we'll never see these cars again, all of them, 190E's,W202's,W140's etc all of them the real last benz's. Anyone can get a fast car, but not all of them have class or old school quality.

and no worries we are entitled to our opinions its just car dicussions here, I'm usually very intrigued by many of your other threads ;)

This post has been edited by W202AMG: May 10 2009, 07:43 AM

[Andrew C280sport]

FYI today this thing is as fast as a Chevy Cavalier... but then are some old Ferrari

This post has been edited by Andrew C280sport: May 10 2009, 10:08 AM

[BenzMaster19]

FYI today this thing is as fast as a Chevy Cavalier... but then are some old Ferrari

Here you go again comparing New cars with old school classic cars. These cars are in a different league of there own! What do you think I would look cooler in, a 190E Cosworth,, or a fuckin Cavalier!??
I think that is a pretty simple answer.

If someone wanted speed only then they would have bought a new C63 instead, but if someone wants a really cool and RARE car that not many people have, then it definitely ain't gonna be the C63! but instead that Cosworth! Again, these cars are in a different league of their own, a C36/C43 was a like a C63 back in the '90's, just as a C55 was back in the early 2000's...

I bought a C36 because I wanted a RARE car, I also LOVE the looks, also knowing I own 1 out of about 50 in Canada, not too much performance wise (according to today's standards) but knowing I have a heavily maxed out/modified 6 Cylinder AMG engine under the hood. That's it. If I wanted to "race" I would buy a C63, or like Artem a CLS63

[Hot Rodder]

If i were to buy a C36 or C43 it wouldn't be for buying a car i want to race people in but rather as a colletors car.

Has anyone established a "collectible value" on those cars? What are they worth? Who is looking for them? Are they regularly featured at collector car auctions?

if you want to compare something look at this way, todays C 6.3 AMG is a Monster to its rivals, those old C classes were the same.

Really??? How so? By how much?

The story about why they didn't sell those C36 and C43's, i don't how thats the case when its near impossible to find them for sale, maybe a few here and there from owners who are probably moving on to another newer benz.

The original owners of those cars moved on the other vehicles a long time ago in most cases.

you said "real" AMG's are V8's, so why are you then knocking a C43 in the same post? even if it was only produced for one year. If you re check C43 history it was a celebration thing they wanted to go big before the stopped making the C AMG's of the old gen.

Difference between knocking and being factual, don't need to check the history of a C43, it was only 1 year because it took 2 years to sell the 1 year, the message was clear the "performance car enthusiast" was not prepared to pay the price of a C43.

and no worries we are entitled to our opinions its just car dicussions here, I'm usually very intrigued by many of your other threads ;)

We have agreement!!!!! Especially on the "your other threads" part

[Andrew C280sport]

There is no collectible value of a C36 Or C43 right now you can pick up that C43 for about 8 grand and there is a C36 for about half of that right now.

Problem with the collectible value is the C36 and C43 looks like any other C class from that era and not desirable to anyone but Mercedes fanatics.

1996-1997 M3s are going from 12,000-15,000 on the auto trader this is the car that everyone wants... The price tells you about the current desirability's we can only speculate what will be a future classic.

This post has been edited by Andrew C280sport: May 10 2009, 11:24 AM

[Andrew C280sport]

Here you go again comparing New cars with old school classic cars. These cars are in a different league of there own! What do you think I would look cooler in, a 190E Cosworth,, or a fuckin Cavalier!??
I think that is a pretty simple answer.

If someone wanted speed only then they would have bought a new C63 instead, but if someone wants a really cool and RARE car that not many people have, then it definitely ain't gonna be the C63! but instead that Cosworth! Again, these cars are in a different league of their own, a C36/C43 was a like a C63 back in the '90's, just as a C55 was back in the early 2000's...

I bought a C36 because I wanted a RARE car, I also LOVE the looks, also knowing I own 1 out of about 50 in Canada, not too much performance wise (according to today's standards) but knowing I have a heavily maxed out/modified 6 Cylinder AMG engine under the hood. That's it. If I wanted to "race" I would buy a C63, or like Artem a CLS63

I am not comparing old with new I am comparing cars that cost about the same... just because its rare dose not make it good... How about a ford pinto in pink... its super rare piece of crap.

If someone wanted speed they would not buy an over priced C63 you do know there are other car manufactures out there and you can have C63 speed for alot less then a C63

I think I would take this cavalier

[Benzonline]

Hot Rodder, as much as I enjoy sometimes reading your informative input, at the same time you are somewhat always "negative" to literally everycar made on this planet except for the American automobiles.

The "runty" C43s.....I like that, but aren't you the same guy who takes your 94 C220 back and forth to Montreal a few times a year? Im sure the old runt is still doing good....but the 94 Pontiac Grand Am's where are those today? Part of them is in the Pepsi can sitting next to me.

As for "collection status", as much as a C36/43 are "rare" by hell no means are they collector cars, in fact not many if not any, 4-door Saloon MB's are collectors except for the old 600 Pullman and some others from that era. Cars like the SL and all cabriolet/convertibles/coupes have more collector status even if mass produced at the time. If I wanted a "collectors Benz" I would definately not buy a C-class of any kind, but for that I dont care....I make my own Marko Collection.

[Andrew C280sport]

Hey Marko I found a silver C36 too if you want to go look at that as well its in Toronto too... I would buy that C43 for the summer and drive it and then sell it just for the experience but I have no more room in my drive way and at relatives houses... if I got that that we would each have two cars per person lol

[Andrew C280sport]

What Hot Rodder is saying about the G8 its totally true... its not going to be a collector... but because Pontiac is no more and to begin with it was half the price of an M5 and goes like an M5 then its a no brainier I actually like the exterior of the G8... if they don't sell them out fast who knows maybe you can pick one up for about 25-30 grand it would be a steal of a deal... because no one is going to want to buy a car from a company that is no more...

[B4TM4N]

Pssssshhhhh...you cooky kids and your little 202's...no doubt the C36 is really nice...but Id personally have one of these.....



W201....a 190E 2.5-16 Cosworth pre AMG...

What? Audi came out with the Quattro?! Damnit..!! we'll pull out of the rally and just push it out to the public...oh and tune a few and bring them to Lamans...>_>

Its not that fast by todays standards...but...damn it looks so cool!!! lol

Yes I would totally rock one of these. If you can find one Eddie, let's fix it up and kick it at the track. I think I saw one once in First Markham Place and noticed the gearshift is not your usual layout.

Friggin' awesome...

[Andrew C280sport]

What you really want is this...

The 1996"Klasse I" Had 500hp from a 2.5L V6, six speed sequential paddle shift. It was a true race car the front and rear sections could be removed its really cool I wish you could see the book.

This post has been edited by Andrew C280sport: May 10 2009, 01:48 PM

[Eddie Jai]

Yes I would totally rock one of these. If you can find one Eddie, let's fix it up and kick it at the track. I think I saw one once in First Markham Place and noticed the gearshift is not your usual layout.

Friggin' awesome...

hells yea. but I dont have that jun of cash on me. I found a really nice 91 FC though. But its RHD. I want it so bad. But then my insurance would be 8grand a year . so... want to split the cost of that FC?